I spoke today at the Small Church Network Summit, Lead Well: For Women in Small Churches. When my friend, Laurie Graham, creator of the Small Church Network, asked me to speak, I was still wading through all that was involved in caring for my husband after his liver transplant surgery. I said, “You know, I love your conferences, and I will do this, but as an interview. I can envision answering questions, but not much more than that. So, it was agreed, and another friend, Kristin Humiston, interviewed me (Kristen Joy Couching & Consulting).
When I participate in interviews as part of a summit or conference, I send a list of possible questions. Sometimes those questions are followed, and sometimes the interview heads in another direction. I am fine either way. Today, I thought I would use this space to answer the questions I sent to prepare myself. Maybe it will keep me more focused. There is always hope!
(After-session thoughts are added at the end! We followed this list of questions while incorporating other important points drawn from the participants’ comments. It is easier to shift from my story to the needs of an audience with their input! Most of this never showed up, but it did help me focus on what I wanted to say.)
Session Title: Help Me—But Only If It’s Not Too Much Trouble
Description: Why is it so hard to ask for help without apologizing, as if needing something makes us too much? What if the struggle to ask for and receive support is rooted in more than we realize – shaped by childhood experiences, church culture, or even our understanding of faith? When my life turned upside down, those questions became more than theoretical. This session holds space to explore the questions and offers hope that asking for help can be one of the bravest, most freeing things we do.
The Interview that I am Imagining
Question: You mention that your life turned upside down. Maybe we should explain that story first.
Almost exactly a year ago, my husband began showing symptoms of what we would come to understand was liver failure, and even later found that it was liver cancer. His liver had been impacted by the Hepatitis B virus that he contracted in his 40s when rescuing a couple from a car wreck. By this January, the problem was diagnosed, and in March—after a near-death episode—he was placed on the liver transplant list. He received a donor liver on April 28th. He is doing well now, but it was a harrowing seven-month journey.
Question: Did you ever expect Scott to get sick like that? So quickly? What did that do to your roles?
Absolutely not. He had a few health issues over the years, but nothing of this magnitude, and his only surgery had been to remove his gallbladder two years earlier. He has been very supportive of my work and taken on many of the home responsibilities so I could devote my time to writing, speaking, and teaching. Every woman would likely be glad to have such a supportive husband, but when he went down for the count, it was life-altering in very difficult ways.
Question: Were you prepared for that?
I was not. It wasn’t simply taking on more responsibilities; I was in no way prepared to step into being a caregiver on top of taking on all that he had been doing. It was interesting because there had been times in our marriage where our roles were not so divided, then other times when I felt like I shouldn’t do things that usurped his role as head of the family. We did better when we functioned in our marriage in ways that made sense to us, vs. the ways the church often said we should function.
Question: Following up on that, did church teachings about male/female roles leave you more helpless than you could have been?
I grew up in a denomination and home where women were included in leadership roles and most often co-leaders within the home. It was not until my adult years that I became involved in churches with very different views of the roles of women. I believe it was at that point that I began to lose some of my independence. Scott was under a lot of pressure to be the man of the home, the spiritual leader. This was not a paradigm that enabled us to thrive in our marriage. As survivors, both of us were constantly trying to figure out who others wanted us to be—and do our best to be that. I was a born leader, so that was always going to be an obstacle—I had to give up a lot of my independence, and in many ways, life felt easier that way.
Question: You have written about why it was so difficult to ask for help as a result of your childhood experiences. Maybe explain what you learned about that.
Yes, that is the other part of my story. It has two parts. There was abuse, sexual abuse by those connected in some way to the churches where my father pastored. The second part was a lack of attachment with my mother, who was not able to be the mother I needed, especially after I was abused. My responsibility was to control my behavior and not upset my mother. I had many unmet emotional needs as a child, and asking for help generally resulted in being shamed in some way. I developed hundreds of strategies to get what I needed without directly asking for anything. My family will vouch for this, and now that we understand it, they are more understanding, and I have learned to ask more directly.
Question: How did it feel when you needed to ask for help when Scott became sick?
The first night he had to go to the ER, I had a panic attack about asking anyone to help me. I do not drive at night—beyond the fact that Scott always does the driving (that was a problem). Our daughter and our neighbors stepped in to help me, and we muddled through four ER visits and a two-week hospital stay. I had to ask for help, and when we were committing to the liver transplant process, I had a complete crisis since it would involve many trips to Seattle. All my feelings of helplessness that resulted from my childhood ran wild:
What if no one stepped in?
What if I couldn’t do it by myself?
What if I was bothering people?
Shouldn’t I be stronger and able to do things by myself?
Question: What had you learned about asking for help that made it different this time—or did it? You said in the description that it felt freeing. Explain that more.
I immediately understood that I was not grounded. The stress was returning me to old patterns of dissociation. I once again felt as if I were living outside of my body. What was different was that I knew what to do. Did I pray? Yes, there were many conversations with God about the situation, and then I listened and instantly knew that I needed to ask for help. I called the pastor of the church I most recently attended and asked her if she could meet me for coffee. We talked a long time, but the one thing I remember best was this statement: “Janyne, if you are going to agree to go through this process, you will need to figure out how to take care of yourself.”
Wait! Take care of me? I am supposed to be taking care of Scott!
In that moment, I felt something shift inside of me. I wasn’t helpless, for the moment Scott was, but I was not. Not being helpless means that I needed to do the following:
Research resources and then ask questions at the hospital to find options to help care for myself.
Stop deferring to Scott while he had no ability to lead. (This has required some adjustment now that he can!)
Take people seriously when they offer to help (stop thinking I am bothering them when I ask for help).
Make a plan that might work before I ask, and then adjust that plan with their help.
I once had a (male) boss who said, “Do not come to my office with a problem unless you also come with a possible solution.” The magic of this was that I felt I had a voice even when the plan didn’t get accepted or was modified. To his credit, he would work to solve the problem. I was an effective leader during those years because I did not fear asking for help. Now it was time to channel that “me” again.
Question: As women leaders, does it feel confusing to need to lead and be asked to be submissive at the same time? How does this complicate asking for help? How do we reconcile this within varying faith traditions?
That was a loaded question that I saved to the end! The word submission strikes at the heart of why it is complicated to be a woman leader. In reality, all women are leaders in one way or another. Those who are mothers are leaders. Women who serve in any form of ministry, paid or volunteer, are leaders. Those are pretty basic leadership roles without having a career, as I did.
It is also realistic to be a leader and a follower in the same role. That is where the idea that one person must be submissive (and subordinate) to another makes things complicated. It is a misunderstanding of submission that leads to this. Submission is better explained as relational submission.
Relationship comes first. Then, together we decide who takes the lead in a particular situation. Sometimes that is role-dependent, sometimes it is based on who has the necessary skills. Sometimes it is determined by who is incapacitated. This makes the situation easier, and when I didn’t fall back onto learned helplessness and unhealthy ideas about submission, I was able to lead and ask for help without apologizing.
A couple of quotes about submission from Trauma in the Pews:
“Anytime a decision is forced—often by the threat of loss of respect, love, or support—the agreement is not freely given submission. Capitulation (forced choice) is not the same as submission (free choice). The first is power based, the second is relation based.”
“Understanding submission as a relationship between equals is essential for those who have been abused by the powerful. Submission does not require open access by any who would cause harm, either physically or emotionally. This is not submission; it is abuse. Being secure in who they are will allow the traumatized to recognize healthy relationships, set boundaries, and gladly serve one another.”
After-Session Reflection
We focused on the conflicting emotions about asking for help. I said, “Asking for help is not the problem. There is nothing wrong with asking for help.” Since the focus was on church settings, the difficulty with asking for volunteers was mentioned. I realized that over the years, I had asked entire congregations for help, and when no one volunteered, it felt like rejection from everyone—when in reality, there were only a few that could possibly fill the need. Those who could help and did not (which was not for me to decide why) missed the opportunity, but it didn’t mean I was wrong in asking or was bothering people by asking. It was an interesting conversation, and I hope it was beneficial.